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Thor665

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Verily shalt I be using this space to record the glorious scrolls and annals of my battles herein at mafiascum.net. One day even I may think of some pompous mafia theories to post here, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that score. Mostly this is to make it easy for me to guide people to games I have played if they want to try to read my play style.


Pompous Mafia Theory

I've come to realize there are some things that I say a lot and that other people often seem bewildered by. I've also had some good rants. So maybe I'll put them together here so I can just link them in the future instead of always writing out new rants every time?

Sounds like a plot to me! Maybe I should even give them their own pretentious pages and then later people will be using 'Thor's Wuss Tell (or TWT) as part of a scum case. Because what mafiascum needs is more acronyms!

Meta is Garbage is Garbage

When did this become a thing? I presume it came out as a reaction to the giant wave a few years back of everyone doing nothing but meta reads (which was also a bit daft) but I'd like to at least discuss some of my issues with the so-called meta issue that I see a lot.

First off, the 'people can change their meta' argument. To that I say, yes, and? People (scum) can game *any and every tell in the book* that's kind of the point of being good scum, doing whatever you can to appear town. Insomuch as I have a scum meta, it is to have it look as much like my town meta as possible, so, yeah, naturally players can and will and should do whatever they can to match metas, just as they should do it to affect any possible tell around. So the idea that scum will attempt to manipulate a tell applies equally across all tells, yeah? Unless the tell is actually objective (and the only ones I've personally found like that tend to be mechanic and voting based - so...y'know, stuff like setup spec and VCA that people *also* whine about. So, first off, this is a dumb complaint when someone uses meta as a tell.

"Meta is garbage!" This is another I hear a lot. I presume people say this because they've seen meta be wrong. Okay, whoop-de-doo, I'm pretty sure I've seen every tell under the sun be wrong. The real question is simply how well supported/researched is the meta being used. Is it from one game? Then maybe it's garbage. Is it from a five year history and 10+ games? Then I'd be awfully willing to buy it (and generally have never experienced people doing a drastic meta shift in some random game to break their meta and own face). So, once again, this makes meta...wait for it...basically like every tell out there.

"I change my meta every game, so I can't be meta'ed" I would suggest this implies you're a bad player, unless your claim is all town game styles are equally effective (and if you think that I'd love to discuss your research and conclusions). I also...well, kinda don't believe this, and even if it is exactly true - then that's your meta, and theoretically tells could be drawn from it even then.

So, basically, stop random attacking meta for empty reasons. If you have an issue with a meta case, describe them. If you can't, then it's probably a perfectly valid case as far as the style the case-maker has chosen.

Also, saying you hate meta is your meta - change it ;)

Use Your Vote

I hear this all the time when people aren't voting because they don't want to 'waste' their vote or something. It's utter gak and dumb in my opinion - there are so few times when it is actually a good idea to not have a vote in play. I have answered this a number of times, but here's Thor's theory of "Use Your Vote (you lackwit!)"


A vote is a weapon, a weapon in finding scum. You need to figure out who you suspect, you need to decide someone you're willing to see dead - then you need to vote them. Then you need to explain why they need death, you need to see who supports you, who opposes you. Then, if you get enough people together you can get them to L-1 and see how they react. Maybe someone will want to hammer, maybe there will be a claim, maybe there won't. Maybe other people will hate that wagon and start a new one on someone different, someone they do see as scummy. People will debate these wagons.

That generates reads, real reads, reads that matter. Going "oh, Chauncy, I find in the sweet afternoons as I sip my whiskey that I occasionally suspect Rupert" doesn't mean gak. Saying "Let's lynch Rupert, I am happy to have him dead" - that matters, that is a commitment, that is a goal. Moving forward from those pressures we will eventually get a L-1 *and* a hammer intent *and* a claim. At that point we can have real discussion, because everyone who isn't voting the lynch will need to offer solid thoughts on it, and everyone who is still voting will need to nut up and prove they have intent there. Maybe the lynch will happen, maybe it won't. There shouldn't be more than 2 claims in the course of a day, but it's fine to have those two and lynch one of them.

Then, Day 2, we will look back on Day 1 and go "hey, look, when this player was about to be lynched this other player acted odd" and we will move from theory hunting into real hunting.

Or, we can all stand around and NOT vote...

Because...that will...help?

I'm not sure why...


Now that was a Day 1 in a Newbie, and some games are more or less forgiving on number of claims, but...meh, 2-3 is probably a safe concept to have at all times.

Using 'All' The Time Till Deadline is Anti-town

What is this gak? No one should do this. Every time some player says that we 'shouldn't rush' or 'have plenty of time' I kind of want to run to run a speed wagon on them just for lulz.

It's total hoo-hah. No, you shouldn't use all the time available - you should use all the time you *need* There is a grind that happens in the game, and that grind wears down town and benefits scum because the longer you sit around reading stuff the more wifom can build up behind your eyeballs and mess with your reads. Also, people really should remember that there is a period of time after a lynch is decided upon when, usually, there's more conversation time needed - you don't want to have to rush that time. I'll be frank, I kind of think 1/2 to 2/3 of the available game time *tops* should be used to decide on the lynch. Then you can all discuss claims and last thoughts, and if needed can move the wagon. But I can't tell you how many times I've seen town gak up a lynch because they derped around till the last few days (or hours) and then you are trying to spot scum who are 'voting because of deadline' which...egads, no, don't let that happen.

So, yeah, using all the time is anti-town. So are speed lynches with no real analysis of the day - but at least everyone seems to understand *that*.

Everything is WIFOM

Everything is WIFOM the way mafiascum thinks WIFOM works.

I kind of feel that this is all that needs to be said. Also, people need to actually try to understand this tell. I can't even begin to describe how many times I've seen someone debating *possibilities* and then being called scummy for 'WIFOM' Or, even worse, someone saying what they believe happened (which is the definition of *not* wifom) and then being called scummy for...yep, WIFOM.

I challenge you to tell me the action that scum might not have done 'WIFOM' on

Yeah...

Y'see, the danger of WIFOM is that it messes with town's heads and makes them doubt reads. But, generally speaking, very few people ever mention it in a scummy manner. I mean, I *use* WIFOM as scum, but you don't ever see me "using" it. Usually my goal is just to make town have to consider things over and over toill their reads are all muddy and useless - that's how scum use WIFOM. Sayingg that you think Player A lied while thinking he would look town for the lie - that's called a conclusion, not WIFOM.

Figure this out, people.

RVS Doesn't Mean You're Supposed to be Random

Okay...how do I say this without coming across more pompous than usual...I...I think that a vast majority of players of Mafia are fething lackwits who don't know what they're supposed to do at game start.

Yeah, that about sums it up. Sadly.

Look, the term RVS does stand for 'Random Voting Stage'. Yes, I get that. I understand. However, the reason it was called that was because to outsiders/newbies back in the day seeing it for the first time it *appeared* random. It was anything but. Really, what it should be called is LIVS, 'low information voting stage'. You don't have a lot of info available, and, yeah, maybe your first vote reasons are indeed because you hate someone's avatar. but you're (theoretically) placing that vote to see reactions to it. Who else votes that player? Who avoids voting them? Who tries to build a wagon? Who avoids this? How does the player react to your vote? Who do they vote? All of that, ALL OF IT, is information, info for the town to assess both Day 1 and later in the game.

What RVS is *not* is a stage where you're supposed to dork around doing nothing for whatever arbitrary amount of pages you think are supposed to be the "fun" pages. That's called pre and post game. Once voting starts the game has started. You're allowed (and I suppose, encouraged) to have fun. I usually do myself. But I *don't* support having fun to the detriment of scumhunting, because that is stupid.

Your vote isn't random. You have placed it for a reason and so has everyone else.

The more you try to make it random the more you are helping scum, because scum like low information voting, because it helps them. Which day do scum have the most ability to mislynch town? Day 1 - due to lack of info.

Therefore, the only sane thing, the only pro-town thing, the only good play thing to do - IS TO PREVENT THE LOW INFORMATION STAGE FROM LASTING ANY LONGER THAN IT HAS TO.

Or...I guess you can have "fun" and joke, and fight any wagons simply because you apparently don't know how to use PMs or a General thread, or a signup thread, or post game to interact with players you like.

RVS isn't random.

Get over your silly selves.


Self Voting as Town

Self Voting...when did this become a thing? I don't get it. Like, literally the only times I've *ever* done it are as scum to try to convince town not to lynch me via reverse psychology. But there's no reason town should fall for that, and they only fall for it because people...do it...as town...for...reasons.


What the heck are those reasons? I don't get them, they're all bad and not just bad but intrinsically bad.


First off, no one - not a single player, has ever argued that a Sane Cop should vote someone he investigates as town unless there is Godfather belief. Everyone understands this, it is good basic theory. That said, when you get your role PM, and you're town...you now have a Cop investigate on yourself. Doesn't that make sense to anyone? When you are town and you self vote you are PLAYING TO SCUM'S WINCON! I mean...you don't fething lynch confirmed town, that's what scum wants, that's not what you should want. So don't do it, don't!


Second, I often see people do it to "help town by removing a distraction". Well...whoop-de-doo for you. You first off joined the game, then probably you lurked your butt off and made your slot look scummy, and now you'll do a "solid" for town by helping to deny us information on your lynch as well. Gosh, THANKS town player, good job, great work, I hope I'm always town with such selfless and wonderful players such as yourself. Hint: the preceding may be sarcasm. Look, play the game people, just play it. If you play badly learn from your mistakes, but don't compund bad play with giving up play and then try to convince me it's a selfless act...it *isn't* It's you recognizing you sucked and now wanting out quicker because you're too lazy to fight your lynch and force scum to have to work to mislynch you. That's what town should do, you don't hand scum a mislynch, not unless you're a bad player who wants to be bad - is that what you are? Because then self-voting as town is win for you!


I'm not sure what other reasoning there is. There's the good ol' "lulz, RVS joke" one I suppose...and it's pretty feth bad too. Wow, awesome, now we can have discussion about how self-voting is dumb for either alignment and what you did was non alignment showing. Great work there, town player. You did a meaningless act in RVS that at best shows nothing and at worse convinces some players you're bad at the game. Wonderful "Reaction test" work, I bet you learned so much. You'll probably now point at anyone who called what you did bad play (who are all spot on correct, by-the-by) and claim they're scum for trying to lynch you for being a bad player, and all you'll really do is point out sane players and accomplish nothing since your tell is as alignment neutral as theirs, but at least they've shown themselves to be competent.

And that's self-voting.

Useful for scum.

Bone stupid for town.

Games I've Participated in

Egads, I haven't updated this thing in two years...um, so I've kind of played in more games than this now. Maybe I'll even try to work on that at some point.

Newbie 856

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Newbie ZazieR/Elmo Town Vanilla Started Survived to Endgame Town win
My first game here at MafiaScum. Lot of replacements this game - including a replacing of not only the IC but also the mod as well as many assorted Newbies and SEs. I made it to Lylo and was never night killed despite everyone and their uncle commenting how townish I was (I vaguely blame a poor choices by the lone Mafia who made it there, but he had been burdened by less then optimal partners). An odd game overall - we had a cop and doc claim Day 1. The doc was legit and lasted till the day before lylo, the "cop" was the one scum who made it to lylo. Very interesting and very long game. I got to learn a lot about newb-tells and hopefully how to read them better and apply them properly during a scum hunt.

Newbie 894

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Newbie pablito Town Cop Started Night Killed Night 1 Town Victory
2nd game on the site - My first time as a Cop role ever. I managed to help lead the way with an initial scum lynch and overall felt very good about my performance. I was quickly night killed on Night 1, however. Was I too aggressively town for a power role? I might have to consider some sort of logic for how/if I want to tamp that back, though that seems to be asking to be meta read, which speaking of meta I learned some lessons about it and its uses this game as well. In any case, some slow play and poor lynches later left the town in lylo with two uncommunicative players and Ythan, who had been one of the initial firebrands on the scum lynch Day 1 (I have no idea why scum let him live so long). Thankfully of the two non-talkers the one who at least managed to show up and vote was town - and town wins by a nose, huzzah!

Newbie 884

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Newbie bird1111 Scum Mafia Goon Replaced in Night 2 Lynched Day 3 Town win
...well, what to say? I replaced in Night 2 to a 50 page game. The scum team ahead of me had scored about 5 player replacements amongst them - had failed to submit a kill on Night 1 - had just had one of their own lynched at the end of Day 2 despite an attempted Doc claim - and had between the assorted players who had played the two slots maintained themselves as very scummy looking throughout. Still, I sort of figured I could make it work. Time constraints had me drop out a nightkill with really no ability to read the thread first (I dumped on the guy who had been more or less cleared by previous scum lynch) and was reading through the thread to prepare my various arguments and feeling pretty content with what was to be my first scum attempt. Cop investigated me night 2 and claimed as basically the first post of Day 2 before I could even get out my "hey I'm replacing in" post. ...I wasted a lot of time reading for this one.

Mini 911 - Mike's Pizzeria Mafia

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Mini Dragonfly13 Town Vanilla Started Killed at Endgame Mafia Win
My first non Newbie game on Mafiascum. I played a *very* good game...if I was scum. My primary suspects were the cop, and the watcher, and by the endgame I pretty much helped convince the other players in mylo that one of the scum was obvtown. I felt off my game for most of the days and really thought I was blowing it throughout. Apparently the scum team feared me a bit after Day 1, but by Day 2 when I hammered via policy on the Cop I was pretty much ace golden boy in their book and rightfully so. Let's not dwell on this one too much - at least I hopefully learned a lot.

Newbie 898

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Newbie Zorblag Town Doctor Replaced In Night 1 Survived to Endgame Town Victory
Replaced in to the spot of a very lurky newbie and it was also my first time as Doc (and shamefully I protected the same townie 3 nights in a row). The last time actually worked and we ended up in Mylo. I spent too much time sort of tunnel focused in on the IC and not enough working other angles (though i did work them - just not as much as I think I should have) Still, I participated in a scum lynch Day 2, and accurately pegged the scum for Day 3 and fought against the town mislynch that happened, and then in Night 3 even pegged the scum NK target so we went to mylo. So some good, some bad, hopefully I'll be better at the Doc role in the future.

Mini 934 - Troubles at Smiths&Catharts

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Mini Col.Cathart Town Vanilla Started Lynched in Mylo Draw
Very cool game, probably one of my favorites thus far. Lots of early replacing probably hurt town but we managed to lynch two of the scum following that and were starting to look pretty good. Failure came as Tracker and I ended up in a bit of a back and forth that somehow got me painted as scummy (I still don't actually understand why). I was pegged as mislynch and couldn't get the one remaining vanilla townie to un-tunnel me as he and the scum tunneled in and had the last PR support the lynch as well. However, last PR was a Paranoid Gun Owner so game ended in draw.

(Link)

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Newbie Vel-Rahn Koon Town Vanilla Started Died at Endgame Mafia Win
A fun game with good play all around. I think town lost some footing because of a lynch that was motivated more from distaste towards a playstyle rather then scum actions (sadly enough I was in on this lynch as well, and it was on a player I'd previously had town reads on - this is a mental misdirection to keep a look out for in the future). Game came down to lylo with me as the deciding town vote between a scum that had falseclaimed cop and a vanilla townie. I went with logic over gut and lost the game for us - dorf!

(Link)

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Mini iLord Mafia One-shot Roleblock Double Voter Started Survived to Endgame Mafia Win
My very first time as scum, it's slightly marred since the setup was probably unbalanced against town (though perhaps over favoring the independent win condition). In any case, Day 1 ended with me and fellow scum semi-oldguy bussing our third scumbuddy who had basically managed to step in it right out of the gate. I suffered some early suspicion for ending the RVS too early and being town-leaderish (which also had other players calling me town for it, so take that with what grains of sodium you choose). The next few days had town hunting down the independent win condition, which worked out nicely for scum, and also had two vigs that ended up killing town both times. In the end town had mostly drawn battle lines between two separate possible pairings and there was only one scum amongst either pairing so that worked out pretty well. Mostly I ended up feeling guilty for being scum because I think I discovered I'm a town player at heart, probably more evidence is needed for that conclusion though. Still, a mostly fun game, some interesting discussion, meeting a couple new players I definitely want to play with again, and a win after a couple of losses makes this one an overall positive experience.


(Link)

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Mini Ellibereth Town *Single* Shot Vig Started Lynched Day 5 Mafia Win
Apparently Fate thinks I'm a scummy seeming townie, egads! Must...alter...meta. In other news this was a game where town lynched accurately the first two days and then sort of slowly crumbled apart because of a Godfather who had been cleared both via actions and via Weak Cop. Good play by Fate and, really, good play by the town. I'm not sure if anyone really went "wrong" in this one, it just wasn't the day for town to win. Overall pretty fun, but like I joked in the beginning of this note, if my meta really is 'scummy town' I've *got* to work on that. Of course I've had other players call my meta too townie a lot, so maybe this is just Fate's take, who knows? I will admit I often feel as though I am hard to get suspicions onto, but once it's done I do tend to become an easy target - probably (hopefully) mostly still just newbie energy I can work on improving.


(Link)

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Large Theme Eddard Stark Town Single Shot Day Vig Replaced in near end of Day 1 Killed Night 7 Scum Draw
Wooosh! Scum suffered a lot of early drawbacks and town suffered under a lot of less then optimal plays. A very fun game and I lasted till late into the game, but eventually ended with one scum of each faction alive and was awarded a draw. I had very accurate early play but sort of shriveled up into WIFOM nightmares as the game churned onward. Still have to work out the best way to handle that situation.


Newbie 965

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Newbie Jeffcole1 Town Vanilla Replaced in Day 2 Killed Night 3 Town Victory
I'd felt a little "off" in some of my recent games and had wanted to revisit a Newbie game to re-polish myself a bit and see how my new game methods were affecting me. I came in strong and managed to clear a role that had previously been looking scummy and also pretty much accurately pegged the scum team and even almost managed to get conversation going somewhere away from the Day 2 mislych (a falseclaimed cop townie). Despite town losing time having to lynch him we came out of Day 2 with some good info and town managed to score both scum on consecutive lynches. I felt good that I was so townie (and accurate) that scum felt obligated to kill me before the other obv. town player and overall felt that some of my new gut-based methods played out well. Here's hoping they work for me in other games as well as they did here.

(Link)

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Newbie Korejora Town Cop Replaced in Night 2 Killed in Endgame Mafia Win
Replaced into a heavily suspected cop who had claimed Day 1 (dorf!). I came in and fairly accurately pegged 1/2 of the scum team and also accurately cleared a townie under suspicion (though I was later talked out of it and began to legitimately suspect the player in question as scumbuddy to the first scum). Overall what I got from this was that my reads were actually pretty good and I was even able to generate a fair amount of content to get a slightly sluggish town talking again. Where I failed was in convincing the other townies to stop suspecting one another enough to listen to my case. Was my evidence too weak and/or gut focused? Were they too tunneled in to listen to me? I'll need to consider some of these issues moving forward since 100% accuracy in reads is useless if you can't get the rest of town to listen to you. T'was a fun game, I'm just sad we didn't get the win.

(Link)

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Mini Normal esuriospiritus Town Vanilla Started Killed Night 2 Town Win
I actually pegged all three of the scum as my top three suspects Day 1 - though I shifted off of one of them later as I felt he'd been semi-cleared. Game was a bit odd due to deadline lynch mechanics, though we did blunder into a scum lynch that way. I really tried to sell my other strong scum read (the roleblocker) but was eventually pulled onto the wagon of neccesity at lynch. I suspect I died because they knew I'd be back on the RB next Day. Interesting game, good player base, marred by a few VI players and squabbles that made the endgame odd. I'm at least fairly content with my play while I was alive and it was good experience overall.

Mini 1023 - City Watch Mafia

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Mini Theme molestargazer Town Town Lover (unknown lover alignment, delayed lover death) Started Survived till Endgame Town Win
Pretty solid and fun game. I was off track on a couple of reads (in truth I was doing much better at town hunting then I was at scumhunting). However a bit of PoE and me actually being willing to reassess an early tunnel helped town pull through with a respectable and solid win.

Open 248: Two of Four

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Mini Open Fenchurch Town Vanilla Started Endgamed Scum Win
Fun game, not much to say on it. I like 7 player games.

Mini 1032 ReBoot Mafia

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Mini Theme Nikanor Ongoing Ongoing Started Ongoing Ongoing
Ongoing

Newbie 991 - Newbieville!

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Newbie xRECKONERx Town Vanilla Started Modkill Day 1 Mafia Win
Decided to finally submit for IC status when I saw the queue needed it, and this was my first game. Pegged two scum day 1, but then got bent out of shape that everyone wanted to lynch one of the scum for the weak reasons I'd pegged him on. Ended up trying to run an alternate wagon on town who I had a poor read on and was Newbie mobbed by a couple newbie players I'd accurately noted were town and had explained why (was actually even suspected by one of them *because* I'd identified her as town!). Dorf on me! I ended up being a modkill because I called them a bunch of bad names and went for the world record of racist comments within a single sentence...or the mod did a miscount and accidentally flipped me before hammer - one or the other ;). A fun experience being the IC, and I've signed up to try again - I do have to remember that Newbie games have a bit of a site meta all their own, and some of my 'Thor is obv. town' energy doesn't translate there the same way it does in main site games, an interesting thing to learn since my old obv. town energy from Newbie games didn't translate so well when I leapt into my first Mini Normal - interesting twist, I'll see how it goes next time.

Mini 1057: Unsubsidized Mafia

Game Type Modded by Faction Role Entry Status Outcome
Mini Normal Chevre Ongoing Ongoing Started Ongoing Ongoing
Ongoing

Win/Loss Record

This will be accurately updated on a schedule of - whenever I feel like it. I am not counting one Mafia loss in the accounting here because I never even got to play that game prior to my lynch via a cop so I don't feel it reflects on me in any way.

[Win/Loss Record]

Faction Wins Losses Draws
Town 5 5 1
Scum 1 0 0
Independent 0 0 0

Thor is Thor (aka - how to read Thor...apparently)

Thor is Thor

Thor is normal

Thor is doing what he always does

I've started noticing this trend, and I'm not sure where it started (I think we were blaming someone at some point, I'll have to try to research that at some stage when I'm bored). It has been discovered that the true and factual ability to read Thor as a Thor read was started by Nexus in Test of Faith Mafia. In any case, the growing trend appears to be to claim that I am not actually either scum or town, but rather am a 'Thor' read (no one else is ever a 'Thor' read, so...I dunno if it would be scummy or townish otherwise)

In any case - this is the usual plan;

  1. Call Thor a 'Thor' read Day 1.
  2. Hope a Cop checks his alignment.
  3. If no Cop checks his alignment demand that he does amazing pro-town stuff of uncertain requirements.
  4. By Day 3 or so start claiming he is scum for being alive and/or not catching enough scum.
  5. Call any remarks from him about how there is no case as him 'being defensive'

That appears to be all you need to know. Now you too can read Thor like the pros!

There are also a few handy tips to keep in mind;

  • Thor is known to bus - therefore any scum he lynches was probably just a bus.
  • Thor is tricky and knows he is known to bus, therefore any player he claims to have a town read should probably be lynched.
  • If they flip scum, this proves Thor is their scumbuddy.
  • If they flip town this proves Thor is scum who cleverly mislead town.
  • If Thor looks pro town in his posting, it's all a scum trick because he is that clever.
  • If Thor looks pro scum in his posting it's because he's bad at playing as scum and is scum.
  • Thor should be asked after every night phase to justify how he is possibly not scum since he is alive.
  • Any answer is probably a scum answer anyway, so ignore it and presume he is scum till his flip indicates otherwise.
  • If Thor makes you laugh, he is scum who is trying to buddy you.
  • If Thor fails to make you laugh it is because he is scum and isn't having fun because he prefers to play town.
  • If Thor is cop cleared as innocent he is probably the Godfather - lynch him anyway.