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{{role
{{RolePage
|alias =None
| Align = Town
|alignment =Variable
| Type = Alignment-Changing
|type =Ambigious
| Type2 = Negative Utility
|night_choice =No
| Normal = Known
|notes =
}}
The Judas is originally a [[pro-town]] role, but upon being lynched, instead of dying, converts to the [[mafia]]'s side. He doesn't, however, learn who is in the mafia. Naturally the [[town]] is not told of the role change.


The Saulus is the reverse of the Judas. He is pro-mafia (but doesn't know who is in the mafia) who, upon being [[lynched]], converts to the [[town]]'s side.
| Introduction = A '''Judas''' is originally a [[pro-town]] role, but when it should die (either by elimination or other kill) it stays alive and converts to the [[Mafia]]'s side instead.  The Town is told nothing except that the elimination failed.


These roles are often together in the same game, particularly in [[open setup]] games, so that if a player fails to die from a lynch, it is not clear whether they were Judas or Saulus.
Judas is, of course, pro-Town... at first.  See also [[Saulus]].  Judas is generally considered a [[Bastard|bastard]] role.


The best known usage of these roles is probably the two [[Back to Gambits]] games run by [[Cadmium]] and [[Mr Stoofer]].
Both roles are named after people from the New Testament of the Bible. The name 'Judas' derives from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Iscariot Judas Iscariot] while 'Saulus' comes from the German for [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle Saul of Tarsus a.k.a. Paul the Apostle]. In [[Werewolf Online]], this role is called "Cursed" and only turns into a werewolf if killed by wolves (if eliminated, [[vig|shot]], torched by the [[arsonist]], etc., it dies).


Both roles are named after people from the New Testament of the Bible. The name 'Judas' derives from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Iscariot Judas Iscariot] while 'Saulus' comes from the German for [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle Saul of Tarsus a.k.a. Paul the Apostle].
'''Judas is an alignment-changing role, and thus requires declaring a game mechanically bastard.'''


[[Category:Roles]]
| Standard = A Judas is an initially town-aligned player who, when they would die, if they are aligned with the Town, instead survives and has their alignment changed to Mafia.
 
| Variations = The Judas role in practice tends to lead to ugly situations.  However, that hasn't stopped mods from trying to make it work:
*The Judas aspect is commonly [[Hidden]] from the player until they convert.  (Since it's already a bastard role, why not?)
*In the interest of balance, the Judas may not be told who the rest of the Mafia are upon conversion.
*Judas may also appear in games with [[Saulus]], thus muddying what kind of role caused the elimination to stop.
*In [[Greater Idea Mafia]], the Judas converts only on elimination. If nightkilled, it dies normally.
 
| Use = Judas is actually not that bad for balance if it gets eliminated immediately upon conversion; in games with a single Night-kill it evens out to a single miselimination - which is what the Judas would have been if it were eliminated as a [[Vanilla Townie]] anyway.  The major concern plaguing Judas is the alignment change (see [[:Category:Alignment-Changing roles]] for more information). 
 
If you do not want it known that a Judas is in the game, consider having extended Twilights so as to give the illusion of the existence of a [[Governor]].
 
If the Judas is self-aware ''and'' converts when eliminated, they can claim for an automatic win if only one Mafioso is alive.  Either the Mafioso dies in which case the Judas wins with the Town, or the Judas eliminates themselves at 2:1 to win with the Mafia.  (However, if this Judas does not also convert when nightkilled, they still need to watch out for [[Vig]] shots.)
 
| SampleModifier = Even Night}}
 
 
[[Category:Historical Roles]]

Revision as of 16:28, 4 March 2024

Judas
Alias: none
Alignment:
Role type:
  • Alignment-Changing
  • Negative Utility
Choice: none
Status: Known

A Judas is originally a pro-town role, but when it should die (either by elimination or other kill) it stays alive and converts to the Mafia's side instead. The Town is told nothing except that the elimination failed.

Judas is, of course, pro-Town... at first. See also Saulus. Judas is generally considered a bastard role.

Both roles are named after people from the New Testament of the Bible. The name 'Judas' derives from Judas Iscariot while 'Saulus' comes from the German for Saul of Tarsus a.k.a. Paul the Apostle. In Werewolf Online, this role is called "Cursed" and only turns into a werewolf if killed by wolves (if eliminated, shot, torched by the arsonist, etc., it dies).

Judas is an alignment-changing role, and thus requires declaring a game mechanically bastard.

Standard version

A Judas is an initially town-aligned player who, when they would die, if they are aligned with the Town, instead survives and has their alignment changed to Mafia.

Variations

The Judas role in practice tends to lead to ugly situations. However, that hasn't stopped mods from trying to make it work:

  • The Judas aspect is commonly Hidden from the player until they convert. (Since it's already a bastard role, why not?)
  • In the interest of balance, the Judas may not be told who the rest of the Mafia are upon conversion.
  • Judas may also appear in games with Saulus, thus muddying what kind of role caused the elimination to stop.
  • In Greater Idea Mafia, the Judas converts only on elimination. If nightkilled, it dies normally.

Use & Balance

Judas is actually not that bad for balance if it gets eliminated immediately upon conversion; in games with a single Night-kill it evens out to a single miselimination - which is what the Judas would have been if it were eliminated as a Vanilla Townie anyway. The major concern plaguing Judas is the alignment change (see Category:Alignment-Changing roles for more information).

If you do not want it known that a Judas is in the game, consider having extended Twilights so as to give the illusion of the existence of a Governor.

If the Judas is self-aware and converts when eliminated, they can claim for an automatic win if only one Mafioso is alive. Either the Mafioso dies in which case the Judas wins with the Town, or the Judas eliminates themselves at 2:1 to win with the Mafia. (However, if this Judas does not also convert when nightkilled, they still need to watch out for Vig shots.)


Sample Role PMs

The standardized Role PM for "Judas" describes the passive ability as follows:

  • As an unmodified passive ability: If you would die, if you are aligned with the Town, instead you survive and become aligned with the Mafia. (edit)
  • As a passive ability with a modifier: the nth time you would die OR If you would die on day n, if you are aligned with the Town, instead you survive and become aligned with the Mafia. (edit)

Example (unmodified)

Welcome to game! You are a Town Judas.

If you would die, if you are aligned with the Town, instead you survive and become aligned with the Mafia.

You have no active abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Example (modified)

Welcome to game! You are a Town Even Night Judas.

If you would die during even-numbered Nights, if you are aligned with the Town, instead you survive and become aligned with the Mafia.

You have no active abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.