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Vengeful Mafia 7p

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  • Vengeful Mafia (7p)
Setup Size:
  • 7
Setup Type:

Vengeful is a 5-player or 7-player Open Setup devised by Kelly Chen. This page describes the 7-player variant.


The following roles are used:

  • 1 Flagbearer
  • 2 Mafia Goon
  • 4 Vanilla Townies


The game uses standard mafia rules, with the following exceptions and details:

  • Nightless. The mafia have no night kill.
  • If the flagbearer is eliminated at any point, the town immediately wins. (This is the only special quality of the flagbearer.)
  • An eliminated townie gets to make a vengekill only when it is "Eliminate or Lose" (i.e., if a vengekill were not made, mafia would immediately win) and there are at least four players for the townie to pick from. (See Vengeful)
  • The town does not automatically win by having the flagbearer killed in this way.
  • Mafia wins when there are at least as many mafia as townies, and the town doesn't have a vengeful kill to use.


This version, for seven players, has nearly the same (actually 58.86%/41.14%) 60%/40% win probabilities as the 5-player version.

The current statistics are:

  • Total Games: 65
  • Town Win: 38.46%
  • Scum Win: 61.54%
  • Draw: 0%


  1. Mafia should be able to win by quickelimination;
    However: Due to the eliminated townie's vengeful kill, it's not likely that the mafia will be able to pull this off without losing a member. If it's obvious who the mafia are, one will be vengekilled, and the other eliminated on Day 2.
  1. Getting a successful vengekill D1 is almost as good as eliminating scum on D1.
    However: If the town eliminates one of the mafia D1, the town's odds of winning become 75%: 100% if the flagbearer is eliminated, or 50% if the second mafia is eliminated. On the other hand, when a townie is eliminated D1, the town's odds drop to 16.7%: There is only a 50% chance that the town can even continue the game (by getting a mafia member killed), and in this case there is only a 33% chance of going on to correctly eliminate the remaining mafia in the final 3.


This page describes the 7-player variant. For the original, see Vengeful Mafia.



The initial setup included 2 generic mafia and 3 townies. Anyone who died Day 1 was able to submit a nightkill, townie or scum, essentially keeping the town always at Eliminate or Lose. The odds strongly favored mafia (76.7%), and skilled players could easily manipulate the town. This thinking led to Rosso Carne developing the so-called "Vengeful Gambit." Night 0, he told his scum partner to make small slips, and he would call out every single one of them continuously, and push extremely hard for his partner's elimination. After pushing the gambit, either Rosso was eliminated, revealing scum, and half-confirming his partner, or his partner is eliminated, making the town's trust of Rosso rise. Either way, the eliminated mafia could make a nightkill, and with a town at ELo day 2, scum would ride to an easy victory. In his next game, Rosso played smooth and actually made good arguments, and through reverse psychology, led to another scum win. The early games had no recorded town wins.

The early scum dominance (and indifference of scum to being eliminated) led Kelly to add the rule saying a eliminated mafioso would not get a nightkill. If town eliminated good day 1, it would be 4v1 day 2. Still, this did not help town enough, as no town wins have been seen with this setup.

The next and current step in the evolution of this game is splitting the mafia into a GF and vanilla mafia. If the GF is ever eliminated , the town wins. If the vanilla is eliminated day 1, it goes to day 2. This greatly decreased the gambit play, as it was risky to obviously expose the mafia if one elimination could result in a loss.

One previous trend was Mastermind of Sin's "pairing" system, wherein he made pairs of the other 4 players, eliminated one of a pair, and if that person was not scum, they vengekilled the other person in the pair. The obvious problem is that if MoS is scum, he can manipulate the pairings to make conditions for a scum win easy. This led to his being eliminated at least three times for making pairings.

One factor that led to increased town wins early on (pre 2007) was that it became much rarer to see townies ask to be eliminated, or be obliged if they did. The town was even managing to eliminate the flagbearer D1, which formerly never happened. Players seemed to be putting more time into creating and looking over voting patterns.

In 2010, Open 234 set a record for fastest non-Marathon Mafia game on the site.

The Flagbearer used to be called a Godfather in this setup.